I’d been shoving the idea down for months, but I could still hear it making noises under the surface of my daily life. So, I finally let it come up for air.
Happy Independence Day to you and Jim... Wonderfully challenging and extremely researched Betsy... I totally agree with you that we can never solve anything by separating on either side of a fence and yelling or throwing sticks.... Unfortunately the church is learning the same bad habits as society and thinking that it can do its best job when it separates itself from people who have different opinions... The gospels to me say one word about that...WRONG!!
Yes, it's hard to not notice the lines in the sand some churches are drawing, and it's hard to know how those leaders, and members, justify it. Somehow that's even more distressing to me than when it comes from those outside of religious institutions. Then again, it's not exactly new behavior, is it? Thanks so much for the comment, Barry.
Elizabeth, I'm so glad you let this one out of its box ! Perhaps we All need a gentle reminder to start to see each other (again)as just people...people we know ;are related to; work with ; are our neighbors; strangers we strike up a conversation with ,and on and on.We need to put our'gang colors' away, so that we can give each other a chance to once again just be people. And , you are right : so much Is wrong in our nation, and government, and society, and(in my mind, at least, our environment), that still needs our attention and care. We simply cannot be led by our tribalism and need to feel accepted ,that we become what we most fear.
By the way, I failed your test utterly ! I wish 'I don't know' was one of the choices ; but that's the point, right? We take misinformation as fact, which is eventually becomes just that, no questions asked.
The analogy of putting our gang colors away is apt and chilling. I'm guessing most of us don't see the relationship between our exclusionary behavior and that kind of territorial, often violent level of "membership."
One of my goals is to focus as much or more on what's right as on what's wrong. It's challenging, and I still have so much to learn. Speaking of which, "I don't know" is a perfectly acceptable response much of the time. Better than pretending you know when you don't. Thanks for chiming in, Melody.
Thanks again Elizabeth for writing about a topic that is with me on a daily basis. Thank you also for providing resources/strategies for dealing with this ongoing stress of divisiveness. You put into words what I wish I could.
I'm trying to work through the "Finding the Way Out Challenge." I'm sure it will teach me plenty! Grateful for you and your willingness to be open minded, Susanne. Thanks!
I'm really glad you decided you have the chops for this subject. You definitely do! I had a conversation yesterday with a young mother who was berating herself as a mother for being a "Martha", while her husband was the "Mary". And of course, anyone who has heard that story can see that Jesus preferred Mary sitting as his feet and listening over Martha was working in the kitchen getting dinner ready - and annoyed about it. But just like the list of false impressions you gave in your article, there is more to this story than meets the eye. First of all the story was reported by a man who was accustomed to (and maybe believed that) women belong in the kitchen. Second, the account never says she was in the kitchen. Third, one could interpret the interaction as Jesus identifying Martha and Mary as people who served God in different ways. Fourth, Martha was the stronger of the two women. Did Mary say anything? etc, etc. It's a great story but it was written by men in a language most of us don't know, interpreted by men, and carried through to today almost exclusively by men. I like being a man, but I can see that men don't really know everything. :). I encouraged the young mother to read an interpretation of that story by a woman. That interpretation won't put Martha in the kitchen, nor label her as less valuable than Mary. And we can add that story to your list of strongly-held beliefs which are wrong...or at least open to many interpretations.
Such a relevant story -- and I hope that young mother can give HERSELF some grace. Consideration of the potential for biased translations of the Christian scriptures is one of the most interesting (and difficult) topics of all, Darrell, and one I've long pondered. Years ago, when I was in high school, a judge marked points off of a competitive, oral presentation I gave, explaining that my interpretation of something written by Tennessee Williams was wrong. I was incensed, and nowadays would have had to challenge his remarks. I kept thinking, "How does he know what Tennessee Williams meant?!" Perspective is everything. Appreciate your comment very much.
I have threads of the Mary/Martha stories (there's more than one) through my memoir of caregiving, as the two haunted me. I found myself reading them over and over--and they're both so few words that I can see why people interpret them. But as a kid growing up, I heard only one interpretation. Interesting to see that when their brother dies, it's Martha who leaves the house to go find Jesus to "do something," and Mary hunkers down at home in grief. In caregiving, I realized someone has to be "in the kitchen" and that role is so valuable. (We do all like to eat.) I also realized that the hole in the story--and there's always a big hole in the best sacred stories, room for us to wiggle around!--is the lack of a third sister. We're given the binaries to play with and to create anew; I had to do the work of creating a peace-maker sibling, and living with how I had to be at the time.
Ha! I am completely digressing from your amazing essay, Elizabeth! But this is such an interesting subject. And maybe the piece about peace-making, and creating a third, less binary, path to go, really does connect. Everything is so either/or. The sisters shared sisterhood and a home, and ideas about how to live and connect, and striving, and love. Here's to that! Thank you for this amazing essay!
Thank you, Elizabeth. I agree and disagree on issues with people, some people in our family. It seems that some people focus on one issue and vote accordingly. I was never vocal about politics until Trump won the election, and I fear he may win again. I choose not to discuss politics with those who support him.
It's likely we are better off not discussing certain things with certain people. That's definitely true if our intention, or theirs, is to try to convince the other person of our own authority and accuracy on the subject. There's no room for taking in another's point of view, and little hope of compromise, when we begin from the assumption that we are right and they are wrong. You're not alone in your hesitations and concerns. Thanks, Suzanne.
Elizabeth, thank you for another well focused and gently provocative Chicken Scratch. As always you touch upon so many nuances of the current dynamic. I join with you in regard to suggesting that civil discourse is a necessary but diminishing element of our form of interaction. As a result, it would seem that civil debate is well beyond an endangered species.
I favor your suggestion to move away from despair. The structural underpinnings of our system have been and are being stress tested. I think that it is fair to say that those structural underpinnings are hanging in there for the moment. I think that overall, I derive some reassurance from this.
I also derive some degree of reassurance from your efforts and the efforts of those that you reference. But, as a matter of semantics, I twitch at the phrase “moving toward reassurance”.
I defer to your linguistic eloquence, but there may be too many well intentioned citizens “moving toward reassurance” from one pundit or another or, one silo member or another.
I prefer to interpret your advice and admonition to suggest that one should seek out the whole story and from those facts, derive their own assurance that this experiment can work even better than it has to date.
Thank you for your continued and appreciated efforts.
You make an interesting and valid point. My intention was to offer a counterpoint to despair. Desperation, I think, drives us toward either paralysis or histrionics, making it much more difficult to home in on shared values. So, I'm now thinking about what term might better convey the idea of moving in the opposite direction. Encouragement, comfort, hopefulness, confidence? -- All of those, in my mind, are equally susceptible to the influence of echo chambers. In the context of this piece, my hope was that reassurance might generate from the awareness that we share much in common with many, regardless of their political allegiances. Appreciate your comment!
Succinctly written, Elizabeth and I commend you for it.
Writing from another country, I cannot comment on American values.
But in Australia, we have our own budding fascists, rightwing cadres and so-called liberal politicians. What I do think is that through history as far back as when Man roamed the world in tribes, we have had exclusionist, dangerous times. And here we are, thousands of years later and still haven't learned a single thing - that all Men/Women are created equal and should be treated accordingly.
Community is wonderful but humans will always divide off to the likeminded because they feel comfortable amongst numbers. Which inevitably leads to Them vs Us... again. Think on your average garden club committee and even there, you will have polarisation and superiority.
The media exacerbates things even more, emphasising whatever makes an explosive news story.
I don't have a solution beyond my own which is to try and help those who need it and to turn off the radio, TV and social media when I feel myself arc-ing up. That way, I can continue to exist calmly and competently.
YES, Prue -- I think we have to find a balance between diving in, so that voices of community and trust-building can be heard, and backing out, on occasion, to keep ourselves from losing touch with ourselves and our values. I love the idea of striving to exist calmly and competently. Thanks for your thoughts, as always.
You are so welcome, Tom, and your presence here much appreciated. I agree, the comments on this post have been thoughtful, challenging, and generally inspiring. Seeing how this community is responding reaffirms everything I've been thinking about and hoping for!
This is one of the most uplifting pieces about our country that I have seen in a very long time. Factual, interesting, and optimistic in its approach. Instead of jingoism, you help us see who we are by linking to polls and articles, and you've certainly convinced me that we're not as divided as some would have us believe. Not only that, you've pointed to actionable solutions. And I for one think your wonderful piece should be read far and wide. I'll start by posting it to my Twitter feed. Thanks for following the inner prompt that led you to do all the research and eventually rescue this terrific contribution from the drafts folder. Bravo!
So good to know the piece resonated for you, Andrew, and I'd be honored for you to share it to any channel you think fitting. Fair warning, though, I never took to Twitter, so while I *have* an account, it is inactive. Just yesterday, in conversation with some friends, I bemoaned how taking up one list of priority activities seems to create a second list of items for which I no longer have time. Been feeling a lot of that when it comes to social platforms. At any rate, thank you, thank you for your detailed comment, enthusiasm, and - I'm assuming - solidarity on the matter.
Your assumption is correct, Elizabeth. Solidarity, for sure. After I commented on your post and shared it on Twitter, I had another idea. Would you be alright if I shared your post on my Substack newsletter The Jazprose Diaries? I haven’t used the cross-post option yet, but I’m sure I could figure it out. I don’t have a ton of subscribers. However, I suspect that many of my readers would appreciate your post too. If you’d prefer not, I’m obviously cool with that. But I think you’ve already given the green light. Asking only because cross-posting is a tad different from posting on social media. And I wouldn’t want to offend. Cheers!
Politicians (and media of many sorts) know that facts and nuance don't sell. Questions and curiosity are for sissies, say the demagogues. If I want to get your attention (and raise money) I need to be an extreme advocate for something.
Great resources in your links. I'm reading David McRaney's "How Minds Change" - about how difficult it is - and important, vital - to update your view of the world based on new information.
Do you have data on which of your essays gets the most reaction? This one might be candidate.
Happy Independence Day to you and Jim... Wonderfully challenging and extremely researched Betsy... I totally agree with you that we can never solve anything by separating on either side of a fence and yelling or throwing sticks.... Unfortunately the church is learning the same bad habits as society and thinking that it can do its best job when it separates itself from people who have different opinions... The gospels to me say one word about that...WRONG!!
Yes, it's hard to not notice the lines in the sand some churches are drawing, and it's hard to know how those leaders, and members, justify it. Somehow that's even more distressing to me than when it comes from those outside of religious institutions. Then again, it's not exactly new behavior, is it? Thanks so much for the comment, Barry.
Elizabeth, I'm so glad you let this one out of its box ! Perhaps we All need a gentle reminder to start to see each other (again)as just people...people we know ;are related to; work with ; are our neighbors; strangers we strike up a conversation with ,and on and on.We need to put our'gang colors' away, so that we can give each other a chance to once again just be people. And , you are right : so much Is wrong in our nation, and government, and society, and(in my mind, at least, our environment), that still needs our attention and care. We simply cannot be led by our tribalism and need to feel accepted ,that we become what we most fear.
By the way, I failed your test utterly ! I wish 'I don't know' was one of the choices ; but that's the point, right? We take misinformation as fact, which is eventually becomes just that, no questions asked.
The analogy of putting our gang colors away is apt and chilling. I'm guessing most of us don't see the relationship between our exclusionary behavior and that kind of territorial, often violent level of "membership."
One of my goals is to focus as much or more on what's right as on what's wrong. It's challenging, and I still have so much to learn. Speaking of which, "I don't know" is a perfectly acceptable response much of the time. Better than pretending you know when you don't. Thanks for chiming in, Melody.
Thanks again Elizabeth for writing about a topic that is with me on a daily basis. Thank you also for providing resources/strategies for dealing with this ongoing stress of divisiveness. You put into words what I wish I could.
I'm trying to work through the "Finding the Way Out Challenge." I'm sure it will teach me plenty! Grateful for you and your willingness to be open minded, Susanne. Thanks!
I'm really glad you decided you have the chops for this subject. You definitely do! I had a conversation yesterday with a young mother who was berating herself as a mother for being a "Martha", while her husband was the "Mary". And of course, anyone who has heard that story can see that Jesus preferred Mary sitting as his feet and listening over Martha was working in the kitchen getting dinner ready - and annoyed about it. But just like the list of false impressions you gave in your article, there is more to this story than meets the eye. First of all the story was reported by a man who was accustomed to (and maybe believed that) women belong in the kitchen. Second, the account never says she was in the kitchen. Third, one could interpret the interaction as Jesus identifying Martha and Mary as people who served God in different ways. Fourth, Martha was the stronger of the two women. Did Mary say anything? etc, etc. It's a great story but it was written by men in a language most of us don't know, interpreted by men, and carried through to today almost exclusively by men. I like being a man, but I can see that men don't really know everything. :). I encouraged the young mother to read an interpretation of that story by a woman. That interpretation won't put Martha in the kitchen, nor label her as less valuable than Mary. And we can add that story to your list of strongly-held beliefs which are wrong...or at least open to many interpretations.
Such a relevant story -- and I hope that young mother can give HERSELF some grace. Consideration of the potential for biased translations of the Christian scriptures is one of the most interesting (and difficult) topics of all, Darrell, and one I've long pondered. Years ago, when I was in high school, a judge marked points off of a competitive, oral presentation I gave, explaining that my interpretation of something written by Tennessee Williams was wrong. I was incensed, and nowadays would have had to challenge his remarks. I kept thinking, "How does he know what Tennessee Williams meant?!" Perspective is everything. Appreciate your comment very much.
I have threads of the Mary/Martha stories (there's more than one) through my memoir of caregiving, as the two haunted me. I found myself reading them over and over--and they're both so few words that I can see why people interpret them. But as a kid growing up, I heard only one interpretation. Interesting to see that when their brother dies, it's Martha who leaves the house to go find Jesus to "do something," and Mary hunkers down at home in grief. In caregiving, I realized someone has to be "in the kitchen" and that role is so valuable. (We do all like to eat.) I also realized that the hole in the story--and there's always a big hole in the best sacred stories, room for us to wiggle around!--is the lack of a third sister. We're given the binaries to play with and to create anew; I had to do the work of creating a peace-maker sibling, and living with how I had to be at the time.
Ha! I am completely digressing from your amazing essay, Elizabeth! But this is such an interesting subject. And maybe the piece about peace-making, and creating a third, less binary, path to go, really does connect. Everything is so either/or. The sisters shared sisterhood and a home, and ideas about how to live and connect, and striving, and love. Here's to that! Thank you for this amazing essay!
Thank you, Elizabeth. I agree and disagree on issues with people, some people in our family. It seems that some people focus on one issue and vote accordingly. I was never vocal about politics until Trump won the election, and I fear he may win again. I choose not to discuss politics with those who support him.
It's likely we are better off not discussing certain things with certain people. That's definitely true if our intention, or theirs, is to try to convince the other person of our own authority and accuracy on the subject. There's no room for taking in another's point of view, and little hope of compromise, when we begin from the assumption that we are right and they are wrong. You're not alone in your hesitations and concerns. Thanks, Suzanne.
Elizabeth, thank you for another well focused and gently provocative Chicken Scratch. As always you touch upon so many nuances of the current dynamic. I join with you in regard to suggesting that civil discourse is a necessary but diminishing element of our form of interaction. As a result, it would seem that civil debate is well beyond an endangered species.
I favor your suggestion to move away from despair. The structural underpinnings of our system have been and are being stress tested. I think that it is fair to say that those structural underpinnings are hanging in there for the moment. I think that overall, I derive some reassurance from this.
I also derive some degree of reassurance from your efforts and the efforts of those that you reference. But, as a matter of semantics, I twitch at the phrase “moving toward reassurance”.
I defer to your linguistic eloquence, but there may be too many well intentioned citizens “moving toward reassurance” from one pundit or another or, one silo member or another.
I prefer to interpret your advice and admonition to suggest that one should seek out the whole story and from those facts, derive their own assurance that this experiment can work even better than it has to date.
Thank you for your continued and appreciated efforts.
You make an interesting and valid point. My intention was to offer a counterpoint to despair. Desperation, I think, drives us toward either paralysis or histrionics, making it much more difficult to home in on shared values. So, I'm now thinking about what term might better convey the idea of moving in the opposite direction. Encouragement, comfort, hopefulness, confidence? -- All of those, in my mind, are equally susceptible to the influence of echo chambers. In the context of this piece, my hope was that reassurance might generate from the awareness that we share much in common with many, regardless of their political allegiances. Appreciate your comment!
Succinctly written, Elizabeth and I commend you for it.
Writing from another country, I cannot comment on American values.
But in Australia, we have our own budding fascists, rightwing cadres and so-called liberal politicians. What I do think is that through history as far back as when Man roamed the world in tribes, we have had exclusionist, dangerous times. And here we are, thousands of years later and still haven't learned a single thing - that all Men/Women are created equal and should be treated accordingly.
Community is wonderful but humans will always divide off to the likeminded because they feel comfortable amongst numbers. Which inevitably leads to Them vs Us... again. Think on your average garden club committee and even there, you will have polarisation and superiority.
The media exacerbates things even more, emphasising whatever makes an explosive news story.
I don't have a solution beyond my own which is to try and help those who need it and to turn off the radio, TV and social media when I feel myself arc-ing up. That way, I can continue to exist calmly and competently.
YES, Prue -- I think we have to find a balance between diving in, so that voices of community and trust-building can be heard, and backing out, on occasion, to keep ourselves from losing touch with ourselves and our values. I love the idea of striving to exist calmly and competently. Thanks for your thoughts, as always.
Tom Norris: Thank you, thank you and thanks so much for the comments. So good to read!
You are so welcome, Tom, and your presence here much appreciated. I agree, the comments on this post have been thoughtful, challenging, and generally inspiring. Seeing how this community is responding reaffirms everything I've been thinking about and hoping for!
This is one of the most uplifting pieces about our country that I have seen in a very long time. Factual, interesting, and optimistic in its approach. Instead of jingoism, you help us see who we are by linking to polls and articles, and you've certainly convinced me that we're not as divided as some would have us believe. Not only that, you've pointed to actionable solutions. And I for one think your wonderful piece should be read far and wide. I'll start by posting it to my Twitter feed. Thanks for following the inner prompt that led you to do all the research and eventually rescue this terrific contribution from the drafts folder. Bravo!
So good to know the piece resonated for you, Andrew, and I'd be honored for you to share it to any channel you think fitting. Fair warning, though, I never took to Twitter, so while I *have* an account, it is inactive. Just yesterday, in conversation with some friends, I bemoaned how taking up one list of priority activities seems to create a second list of items for which I no longer have time. Been feeling a lot of that when it comes to social platforms. At any rate, thank you, thank you for your detailed comment, enthusiasm, and - I'm assuming - solidarity on the matter.
Your assumption is correct, Elizabeth. Solidarity, for sure. After I commented on your post and shared it on Twitter, I had another idea. Would you be alright if I shared your post on my Substack newsletter The Jazprose Diaries? I haven’t used the cross-post option yet, but I’m sure I could figure it out. I don’t have a ton of subscribers. However, I suspect that many of my readers would appreciate your post too. If you’d prefer not, I’m obviously cool with that. But I think you’ve already given the green light. Asking only because cross-posting is a tad different from posting on social media. And I wouldn’t want to offend. Cheers!
Thank you for asking, and yes, by all means cross-post. It will be interesting to see how the essay lands with folks who are not my usual audience.
Well done, E!
The lost art of inquiry...
Politicians (and media of many sorts) know that facts and nuance don't sell. Questions and curiosity are for sissies, say the demagogues. If I want to get your attention (and raise money) I need to be an extreme advocate for something.
Great resources in your links. I'm reading David McRaney's "How Minds Change" - about how difficult it is - and important, vital - to update your view of the world based on new information.
Do you have data on which of your essays gets the most reaction? This one might be candidate.